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the state laws and the local law says that there's still smoking inside of restaurants. and the ordinance does not allow or provide any provision to allow restaurants or cafes to smoke indoors or outdoors. and i -- or any type of business to smoke, if they're located in a residential building. and since june 2010, nile cafe knew, through meetings with me, phone calls, we've had several phone calls, and notices. the first written notice was the denial of the exemption that went out november 2010. the second notice was the notice to comply. that went out august 2011. and then there was two notices of violation issued on 2012. and that was all before we even met with the director of public health. so nile cafe h written notificas between november 2010 and may 2012. but they still made the choice to violate the health code. and therefore there should not be reversal or reduction of the suspension or order. the nile cafe once they comply with the suspension and want to -- they can contact me and we'll be willing to meet with them but i think they need to comply with the law f
the state laws and the local law says that there's still smoking inside of restaurants. and the ordinance does not allow or provide any provision to allow restaurants or cafes to smoke indoors or outdoors. and i -- or any type of business to smoke, if they're located in a residential building. and since june 2010, nile cafe knew, through meetings with me, phone calls, we've had several phone calls, and notices. the first written notice was the denial of the exemption that went out november...
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the law has a bright line. it says if you engage in a wongful action, there is a defense called the insanity defense which never works as most of us know because we don't recognize it. should we recognize it, that's an interesting question. should we have a more robust concept of diminished responsibility in light of the understanding that some people have less control over their preferences and desires or should we have better sentencing schemes or get rid of incarceration and come up with different models of trying to deal with punishment once we understand people have wrong selections. i think those are all interesting questions, but is there free will? well, the fact that almost everybody in the audience raised either their right or left hand contemplated it and were quickly able to act and respond. that to me says, yes, there is. now what do we want to do about it? now that we understand that those of us in the audience or up here that like chocolate cake may not have control over it, how do we want to acc
the law has a bright line. it says if you engage in a wongful action, there is a defense called the insanity defense which never works as most of us know because we don't recognize it. should we recognize it, that's an interesting question. should we have a more robust concept of diminished responsibility in light of the understanding that some people have less control over their preferences and desires or should we have better sentencing schemes or get rid of incarceration and come up with...
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interest include election law, administrative law, statutory interpretation, constitutional law and property and natural resources law. he is a resident of san francisco's mission district. we are honored to work chris almendorf. [ applause ] >> thank you very much and thank you to all of the candidates who are here today. we're very fortunate to be joined by six candidates and what i hope will soon be seven. all of the candidates have agreed to ask their supporters to be respectful of other candidates and the audience and to maintain quiet during the forum. i ask you to respect that commitment. every aspect of this forum will be equally fair to all participating candidates. as everyone here knows candidate debates are often limited to latitudinal appears and personal attack. our debate focuses on critical areas of policy disagreement among the leading candidates. so this end the league of women voters of san francisco and the san francisco public press working with researchers at uc davis, developed an issue position survey for the supervisorial candidates. the candidates were asked to stat
interest include election law, administrative law, statutory interpretation, constitutional law and property and natural resources law. he is a resident of san francisco's mission district. we are honored to work chris almendorf. [ applause ] >> thank you very much and thank you to all of the candidates who are here today. we're very fortunate to be joined by six candidates and what i hope will soon be seven. all of the candidates have agreed to ask their supporters to be respectful of...
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this is not to give the law- enforcement a short shrift. i have had an impact on my husband's life, some of the unwanted. but he has had an impact on mind. i have done extensive work with law enforcement, with the lapd and the los angeles county sheriff's. i am here to tell you that crime has been driven down in los angeles because of their efforts, but not only because of their efforts. so what does the collaboration look like. i want you to keep some ideas in mind. there is no first among equals. what we learned in los angeles was that oppression alone was not the answer. it did not work. there were record highs in gang violence in 2005. i want to tell you what has happened between 2005 and 2012. number one, the grass roots -- the disorganize, fragmented, passionate grass roots must be part of this. the community members who go to county supervisors meetings, the members who pass out fliers, the youths who have been in the juvenile justice system that are now part of the coalition -- those individuals must have a seat at the table. no. 2.
this is not to give the law- enforcement a short shrift. i have had an impact on my husband's life, some of the unwanted. but he has had an impact on mind. i have done extensive work with law enforcement, with the lapd and the los angeles county sheriff's. i am here to tell you that crime has been driven down in los angeles because of their efforts, but not only because of their efforts. so what does the collaboration look like. i want you to keep some ideas in mind. there is no first among...
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i guess it is not for me to get. >> state law. we are trying to live within the four corners here. >> thank you for your report. i have a couple of questions. under redevelopment, 80% of the tax increment was to flow back into the redevelopment area. with the dissolution, we were told that absent any substitute agencies this money would flow into the general fund of the city or county; in our case the city and county of san francisco. under successor agency, with a redevelopment funds or criminal tax funds clawback of the area or to the general fund? >> the answer is yes and yes. anything with the tax increment, 60% infrastructure, -- down the line to the district. in those areas funds do flow pursuant to the contract in place to the taxing entities, in the format described, 80-20%. -- it requires an increment in infrastructure to make it happen. 100% of 0 is 0. once development happens, we are looking at changes to state law to try to capture the increment and the upfront investment required to make that kind of brownfield site g
i guess it is not for me to get. >> state law. we are trying to live within the four corners here. >> thank you for your report. i have a couple of questions. under redevelopment, 80% of the tax increment was to flow back into the redevelopment area. with the dissolution, we were told that absent any substitute agencies this money would flow into the general fund of the city or county; in our case the city and county of san francisco. under successor agency, with a redevelopment...
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is on the ballot in november, measure c, from what i'm hearing, they reserve the right to change the law back again in the future. t it would seem to me that i don't understand how voters could vote with the understanding that this is been passed. the reserve the right to change it back. people need to know that this provision exists. one the be inclined to take a position based on what has been passed. >> there are interaction between the ordinance in the charter amendment. the charter amendment itself does not affect the 5-9 unit specifically. but the charter amendment would do, it would say the come january 1 of the new year, controls in place at the time are in some respects frozen, and cannot be made more cumbersome for developers. in this case, on the first of the year, the inclusionary requirement for 5-9 buildings will still be intact; the ordinance that the board voted on this week would remove the inclusionary requirements of those 5-9 buildings after the first, 2013. and so because that date has been moved out, they would have the ability to make just that section for the 5-9
is on the ballot in november, measure c, from what i'm hearing, they reserve the right to change the law back again in the future. t it would seem to me that i don't understand how voters could vote with the understanding that this is been passed. the reserve the right to change it back. people need to know that this provision exists. one the be inclined to take a position based on what has been passed. >> there are interaction between the ordinance in the charter amendment. the charter...
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so we could reform the laws in that way. there is a possibility that we should just eliminate the ethics commission. it's appointed by the departments that are at city hall. so they appoint their friends, which makes it inherently somewhat difficult for them to perform the job they are supposed to firm. this was created in 1993 and it was said to have created an extra layer of bureaucracy and i think that is playing out. >> thank you. experts say there is a 62% chance that an earthquake causing widespread damage will strike san francisco, or the greater bay area within the next 30 years. what new polices should the city institute in order to minimize the human and economic costs of the next big one? this is a question for miss breed, mr. davis and miss johnson. >> i think that we all -- we are already doing some of those things. for example, many of the new buildings, we're making them as sturdy as we possibly can. we're doing a lot of retrofit projects. part of the work that we do -- i raised over $2.5 million to renovate t
so we could reform the laws in that way. there is a possibility that we should just eliminate the ethics commission. it's appointed by the departments that are at city hall. so they appoint their friends, which makes it inherently somewhat difficult for them to perform the job they are supposed to firm. this was created in 1993 and it was said to have created an extra layer of bureaucracy and i think that is playing out. >> thank you. experts say there is a 62% chance that an earthquake...
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the third one was the utilization of law enforcement resources. we see that with marijuana and other drugs and by in large they say let the cops focus on real crime, predator crimes, violent crimes, not prioritize the simple ones. [applause] >> i want to give everyone on the panel one last chance to make any closing remarks. >> realignment was a good sign public sentiment has changed. the polls out there, the public wants accountability but sensible accountability, and i think 1506 gives us that. and i think the comment was made in each of the economies but in fact what we found, when you have realignment, all 58 counties deciding what to do, if we just look at the incarceration rates across each of the counties, fresno, like county, population demographics to san francisco. and it's a law that impacts on a statewide basis is more sensible than leaving it up to each county because then you'll end up with 58 different styles and methods of criminal justice. >> tal? >> i'm the public defender and it's my job to push the envelope. it's one thing to t
the third one was the utilization of law enforcement resources. we see that with marijuana and other drugs and by in large they say let the cops focus on real crime, predator crimes, violent crimes, not prioritize the simple ones. [applause] >> i want to give everyone on the panel one last chance to make any closing remarks. >> realignment was a good sign public sentiment has changed. the polls out there, the public wants accountability but sensible accountability, and i think 1506...
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and number planning laws. reinstating liquor controls, commission recommended approval with minor modifications on september 9; amended for your recommendation and passed on final reading on tuesday. the successor agency ordinance for the former redevelopment agency, we reported last week this ordinance is a result of recent amendments to state law; the director provided with an update before the first reading of the board. this week the board took final action on it, the mayor signed it into law. you will get an in-depth presentation from tiffany -- executive director of the successor agency, and she is here today and jason elliott, the director of legislation for the mayor's office in a few moments after this report is over. also before the full board on tuesday was an update to the tidf, transportation impact demand fee. included all of the recommendations; the board continued discussion of the item until october 16. update of the general plan was heard; the board approved on first reading. lastly the last
and number planning laws. reinstating liquor controls, commission recommended approval with minor modifications on september 9; amended for your recommendation and passed on final reading on tuesday. the successor agency ordinance for the former redevelopment agency, we reported last week this ordinance is a result of recent amendments to state law; the director provided with an update before the first reading of the board. this week the board took final action on it, the mayor signed it into...
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so the san francisco law is very clear. there is no smoking indoors or outdoors for any type of establishment that serves food or beverages. and mr. ahmed the choice to violate the health code by allowing his patrons to smoke indoors even after our meeting, even after i denied the exemption application, and even the follow-up phone calls that we had in 2010. i also sent a notice to comply. that was in 2011. and then there were two notices of violations that were issued in february and may of this year. so because of the continued repeat violation, the department ordered a cease and desist of smoking inside of the cafe, also insisted the complete removal of all smoking products and smoking devices, and a 30 day suspension for the tobacco permit. now my last meeting with mr. ahmed was june 19, 2012 and he showed me his new product that he wanted to convert to, which is these rocks soaknd jis rin and the glycerin is infused with flavors. i went last night and wanted -- to observe the operations. so it was the same huka pipes b
so the san francisco law is very clear. there is no smoking indoors or outdoors for any type of establishment that serves food or beverages. and mr. ahmed the choice to violate the health code by allowing his patrons to smoke indoors even after our meeting, even after i denied the exemption application, and even the follow-up phone calls that we had in 2010. i also sent a notice to comply. that was in 2011. and then there were two notices of violations that were issued in february and may of...
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how do we take account for that in law? that's, i think, the interesting struggle that neuroscience presents us with, but it doesn't change the issue of free will. in fact, we have just as robust of evidence from neuroscience that supports this concept of action which is what we punish for in law to begin with. >> and, doctor, would you like to comment on that last? >> no. [laughter] >> i would like to raise an issue. theoretically, that may all be true. there is a problem in distinguishing and differentiating those who are compelled to act from, based on their desires and those who are not. and so if you can't define and it's not just simply defining in the brain, but it's defining it genetic, environmentally, contextually, you're defining it in terms of time, if you study their brain today but they committed the act six months ago, a year ago or 10 years ago, so the legal question ultimately is not theoretically whether we can distinguish preferences from action, but whether we can identify those either before the fact or
how do we take account for that in law? that's, i think, the interesting struggle that neuroscience presents us with, but it doesn't change the issue of free will. in fact, we have just as robust of evidence from neuroscience that supports this concept of action which is what we punish for in law to begin with. >> and, doctor, would you like to comment on that last? >> no. [laughter] >> i would like to raise an issue. theoretically, that may all be true. there is a problem in...
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s associations and call for various types of reforms for the drug laws and drug enforcement. i think that the -- one of the contexts that's so important here and people so often lose sight of is that this bill, 1506, is a small effort in the state of california and in the country of the united states to try to roll back the horrendous rates of incarceration that have happened in this country over the last 30 years. i mean, that's the context, right? the united states, i think most of you know these numbers now, but we're less than 5% of the world's population but almost 25% of the world's incarcerated population. we rank first in the world in the per capita incarceration of our fellow citizens. the russians are fading fast in second or third place together with the belarus people. the rates of the incarceration are five, six, seven, eight times than most in other societies, europe and elsewhere, though their rates of nonviolent crime and drug use are not that much different than ours. so if another country were to lock up its own people at the rate that we do, and if our rate
s associations and call for various types of reforms for the drug laws and drug enforcement. i think that the -- one of the contexts that's so important here and people so often lose sight of is that this bill, 1506, is a small effort in the state of california and in the country of the united states to try to roll back the horrendous rates of incarceration that have happened in this country over the last 30 years. i mean, that's the context, right? the united states, i think most of you know...
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race or class you can access treatment and move on with your life and another one where because of law enforcement tactics and focus, you end up caught up in a system where you can never move on. you're permanently trapped and weighed down by having a felony conviction. the reason i call it a war on crumbs is the type of people we see at the hall of justice, i brought with me some props. i brought with me a sweetener packet. this is a gram of sweetener. most of the time this is on the high end of the amount of narcotics we see people in possession of. sometimes people have two or three sweetener packages on them and we call them drug dealers, you know. that's why we call it a war on crumbs because the amounts we are talking about are mine us schedule. -- minnesota us schedule. the fact -- are miniscule. and based on less than a packet of sweetener, to me is outrageous. and to me this is a positive first step, in my opinion, because at least you remove some of the stigma attached to this type of issue which in my opinion should be a public health issue. it's a public health issue for a
race or class you can access treatment and move on with your life and another one where because of law enforcement tactics and focus, you end up caught up in a system where you can never move on. you're permanently trapped and weighed down by having a felony conviction. the reason i call it a war on crumbs is the type of people we see at the hall of justice, i brought with me some props. i brought with me a sweetener packet. this is a gram of sweetener. most of the time this is on the high end...
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related to rent control laws and this type of thing. so it makes sense. and it would also help, i think, fund their operations and i think there is a need for housing counseling in a city where the rents are so high and the abuses are still present. so i think it's a great situation. i think it's a win-win. >> miss selby. >> i think i didn't understand the question in the first place, because when i answered it i was wondering why are we only authorizing non-profit housing organizations and why not authorize everybody? i don't think i really understood the question as to why specifically non-profit housing organizations? i think if you are going to have restrictions on short-term rentals, there should be a way to be able to make sure that that happens. whether it's through a non-profit housing organization or through another means in the city. then i think you need to be able to enforce legislation, if you have it in place. so that makes sense to me. >> thanks. mr. everett? >> your question reads like a law school exam question, by the
related to rent control laws and this type of thing. so it makes sense. and it would also help, i think, fund their operations and i think there is a need for housing counseling in a city where the rents are so high and the abuses are still present. so i think it's a great situation. i think it's a win-win. >> miss selby. >> i think i didn't understand the question in the first place, because when i answered it i was wondering why are we only authorizing non-profit housing...
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i also think it is important to be flexible as community workers or law enforcement. we need to be flexible because things change. there is not just one solution. kids might take 10 steps forward. they might make such significant progress, and then something goes down. something goes down and they take eight steps back. we need to be able to be flexible with them and be there through that process. and not to say, i am not working with you anymore because you let me down. that is really important as well, not to be rigid. collaborations are very important as well. if we are talking about bringing everybody to the table to develop solutions, youth should have the same importance as the district supervisor, as the police enforcement officer, as the executive director. through that, we build a real communities. i have respect for our brother over here and respect for my sister over there. you develop that accountability and integrity billet -- and integrity amongst one another. we are able to express ourselves and develop real solutions, especially in the time where the b
i also think it is important to be flexible as community workers or law enforcement. we need to be flexible because things change. there is not just one solution. kids might take 10 steps forward. they might make such significant progress, and then something goes down. something goes down and they take eight steps back. we need to be able to be flexible with them and be there through that process. and not to say, i am not working with you anymore because you let me down. that is really...
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the term "gang" is manifested through the media, and law enforcement for numbers. it was more of a community. i did not go to school and meet somebody. i lived on this block and this is where my grandmother's house was, or i was born and raised. what people may see on tv was at my front door. the killing and the dope dealing. it was right there. this was a community list of people, we just grew up together. there were no handouts and no one told us how to conduct ourselves. and tell us what to wear. someone could have a school fight, and we may be at the mall, and see the person we have a fight with. the army and navy have their bar fights. i did not see this as being a game, or a community. supporting each other, this may have been in a negative way. i did not have a stable household. many of them do not of their fathers are, where their father is dead. in their return, the block i gave up -- this is who i looked up to. he had a notorious reputation. there was the violence and in return, we had the pros and cons for that. a lot of people would mess with me because
the term "gang" is manifested through the media, and law enforcement for numbers. it was more of a community. i did not go to school and meet somebody. i lived on this block and this is where my grandmother's house was, or i was born and raised. what people may see on tv was at my front door. the killing and the dope dealing. it was right there. this was a community list of people, we just grew up together. there were no handouts and no one told us how to conduct ourselves. and tell...
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we may skirt the law and serve something before 6:00 a.m. the bookmobile, where are they? >> i have my cheat sheet here which i cannot find. the library has been here after great disasters. there has -- is a special book that won an award this year. here is the book. i downloaded it on my kindle. it can check out copies of the book mobile. nex>> thanks for being here. start walking slowly. welcome to san francisco, everyone. ♪
we may skirt the law and serve something before 6:00 a.m. the bookmobile, where are they? >> i have my cheat sheet here which i cannot find. the library has been here after great disasters. there has -- is a special book that won an award this year. here is the book. i downloaded it on my kindle. it can check out copies of the book mobile. nex>> thanks for being here. start walking slowly. welcome to san francisco, everyone. ♪
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substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury that the escapee posed not only to them, but all other law enforcement officers he might later encounter, let alone the public at large should discontinue. in a split second of the bmw approach, they moved tactically to create safe angles of fire. having exhausted all of a reasonable means of apprehension, they fired several rounds of the driver, and as a result, the suspect was struck, in capacitive -- incapacitated and taken into custody. at the conclusion of the encounter, sir john ryan and officer lieu maintain security on the screen -- on the scene until additional officers arrived to assist. an ambulance was immediately summoned. the suspect was transported to san francisco general hospital and later succumbed to his gunshot wounds. in the bank robbery suspect in this incident displayed an outrageous lack of concern for life, public safety, and property for what the course of the criminal rampage that began in irvine, california. he used a firearm to rob to banks in southern california, of threatening to shoot the tellers if they did no
substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury that the escapee posed not only to them, but all other law enforcement officers he might later encounter, let alone the public at large should discontinue. in a split second of the bmw approach, they moved tactically to create safe angles of fire. having exhausted all of a reasonable means of apprehension, they fired several rounds of the driver, and as a result, the suspect was struck, in capacitive -- incapacitated and taken into custody. at...
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consequences of not doing housing elements in compliance with state law is one of the other conditions of being a jurisdiction eligible to receive block grant funding is a have to have -- housing element. one of the challenges to the region in the planning process if they don't have a ton of tools sticks and carrots to make things happen; one of the things that they do have is transportation funding, they have done a good job of time something that control to a consequence. >> the other question that we talked about, the priority projects, 13, a lot of other areas have newer transportation systems so they don't have the issues that we have. how are like maintenance and ongoing operations supported? i love the new project and we need those, but especially for muni the challenges are existing. >> of the entire revenue in the plan, 88% is dedicating to operating and maintaining the existing system; the challenges that -- gets us to maintaining the infrastructure at today's levels. twe may desire to get a higher state of repair than what we have. >> the biggest challenge that we have are t
consequences of not doing housing elements in compliance with state law is one of the other conditions of being a jurisdiction eligible to receive block grant funding is a have to have -- housing element. one of the challenges to the region in the planning process if they don't have a ton of tools sticks and carrots to make things happen; one of the things that they do have is transportation funding, they have done a good job of time something that control to a consequence. >> the other...
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allowances from the city to qualify where rental rates are restricted, that is my understanding of the law; and not sure what this project is getting that allows it to have rental housing units on-site. >> planning staff, there is a cost agreement with this project, included with the original condition material that went out for the september 6th hearing. >> i read that before, but i'm still not clear. there was a variance. it's still present? that may be viewed as the element as a part that allows this to be compliant. >> a variance both for the -- and dwelling unit exposure. >> i heard heard testimony about a variance not being necessary anymore. >> it is not anymore. >> you have a backup revision if this were found to be noncompliant? i'm not saying they would be. if there were a challenge to cost of hawkins, you could have a position that you can do an inlieu fee or -- so the project to go forward. we always allow for that contingency if it were to happen. mitty mr. slider can elaborate. >> yes. section 415 of the planning code would apply, 20%, if funding does not materialize. >> i co
allowances from the city to qualify where rental rates are restricted, that is my understanding of the law; and not sure what this project is getting that allows it to have rental housing units on-site. >> planning staff, there is a cost agreement with this project, included with the original condition material that went out for the september 6th hearing. >> i read that before, but i'm still not clear. there was a variance. it's still present? that may be viewed as the element as a...
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>> as an attorney, i am required to uphold the laws of the state of california, and the united states as well. i'm required to do so in a completely even-handed manner. i do so with no problem and with all the love in my heart. that being said, it would be ridiculous, disingenuous and completely unhelpful not to realize that certain segments within our population here in san francisco need help more than others. it would be absolutely preposterous for me to sit up here and tell you that we're going to approach polices of economic advantagement in an even-handed manner. that would do a disservice to and again, we are a weaker city if we allow certain segments of you are population to essentially rot. we're a stronger, vibrant and more resilient city if we address the issues of those least among us, tackle them, and face them head-on. >> thank you. >> that is what i'm about. truth and honesty in our policy approached. >> mr. resignato. >> i think one important thing we need to look at is vision. really, you know? a vision for what san francisco is going to be. and i think that involves
>> as an attorney, i am required to uphold the laws of the state of california, and the united states as well. i'm required to do so in a completely even-handed manner. i do so with no problem and with all the love in my heart. that being said, it would be ridiculous, disingenuous and completely unhelpful not to realize that certain segments within our population here in san francisco need help more than others. it would be absolutely preposterous for me to sit up here and tell you that...
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meaning we will end the year in june of 2013 with more than we are required to end the year with by state law. that puts us dangerously close to a negative or qualified financial position. the multi-year projections show the need for additional cuts. >> could you repeat what you just said about the numbers you just gave? >> our revenues that are coming in this year are about $30 million less than what we are projected to spend next year. if you look at what we have coming in, luckily, we have a beginning dallas that will allow us to cover that $30 million. but we end the year with only $230,000 more than the very base necessary we need to meet a positive financial status. that is with the cuts that the board of education adopted on tuesday of this week. it is not level of spending we would want to be, including the furlough days and other parts of the budget. the other revenues, and we mentioned a few of them, are the city's rainy day fund, which we are counting in this budget. we are happy that the sales tax is projected to increase. we do not have the federal jobs fund any more. it is no lo
meaning we will end the year in june of 2013 with more than we are required to end the year with by state law. that puts us dangerously close to a negative or qualified financial position. the multi-year projections show the need for additional cuts. >> could you repeat what you just said about the numbers you just gave? >> our revenues that are coming in this year are about $30 million less than what we are projected to spend next year. if you look at what we have coming in,...
SFGTV2: San Francisco Government Television
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Oct 4, 2012
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and again that falls in line with the municipal code, the law is very stubborn. i have other applicants that fall into it as well. >> but you don't have with you the application for the renewal of the existing permit, do you? >> not for nelson's, no. >> vice president fung: perhaps we should hear the rebuttal, and then -- >> okay. i just -- it's been so back and forth, i just wanted to make sure we're all talking about the same thing. >> vice president fung: officer, you still have time to make your rebuttal if you like. >> sure. on the nelson permit because that's what we're talking about. >> i believe nelson's is, at this juncture, mr. johnson you can refresh me, but i believe it was -- it should have been expired. he was applying for the bay bridge. so i think it will be over any way by the time this year is over. >> okay. thank you. >> when i'm looking at what was appealed and what was given to the department, the letter issued by the police department seems to be crossing wires. it refers to a denial of a permit for nelson's towing. it does not say revocatio
and again that falls in line with the municipal code, the law is very stubborn. i have other applicants that fall into it as well. >> but you don't have with you the application for the renewal of the existing permit, do you? >> not for nelson's, no. >> vice president fung: perhaps we should hear the rebuttal, and then -- >> okay. i just -- it's been so back and forth, i just wanted to make sure we're all talking about the same thing. >> vice president fung:...